Comments on: Imagine a freeway without on- or offramps … http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/ TrainBlog - Blogging about passenger trains, high-speed rail, Amtrak, Caltrain, VTA, railroads, transit, public transportation, passenger rail advocacy and related politics. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 04:22:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: bartje http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-83 bartje Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:49:00 +0000 http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-83 Getting from one train into another train or bus is not so stressing. At least, if the waiting conditions are good (covered and heated/with airco), waiting time is reasonable, and stepping on and off is made easy by changes at the same platform, high platforms at the same level of the floor in the bus/train... That's how it should work. But only in some stations in Belgium, it does... Getting from one train into another train or bus is not so stressing. At least, if the waiting conditions are good (covered and heated/with airco), waiting time is reasonable, and stepping on and off is made easy by changes at the same platform, high platforms at the same level of the floor in the bus/train…
That’s how it should work. But only in some stations in Belgium, it does…

]]> By: adron_bh http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-82 adron_bh Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:29:00 +0000 http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-82 Portland has similar issues. The growing areas of Hillsboro, Gresham, and other lower cost areas are underserved in comparison with downtown. The focus remains on downtown even though it is stagnant in real job growth compared to the outlying areas. Thus the real transit growth need isn't so much transit from outlying areas to downtown but from outlying area to outlying area. Portland area will really see how this comes into play when we get our first DMU powered commuter trains running from one burb (Wilsonville) to another burb (Beaverton). There a transfer (a good one, unlike down in those cali areas!:) will be available to the light rail to downtown. On the other end we have light rail being built from an existing hub point down to Clackamas, another burb. Both of these, are estimated, to have at least 70% (give or take) local only trips with none going downtown. ...nfortunately though, that's it. Portland has similar issues.

The growing areas of Hillsboro, Gresham, and other lower cost areas are underserved in comparison with downtown. The focus remains on downtown even though it is stagnant in real job growth compared to the outlying areas. Thus the real transit growth need isn’t so much transit from outlying areas to downtown but from outlying area to outlying area.

Portland area will really see how this comes into play when we get our first DMU powered commuter trains running from one burb (Wilsonville) to another burb (Beaverton). There a transfer (a good one, unlike down in those cali areas!:) will be available to the light rail to downtown.

On the other end we have light rail being built from an existing hub point down to Clackamas, another burb.

Both of these, are estimated, to have at least 70% (give or take) local only trips with none going downtown.

…nfortunately though, that’s it.

]]> By: Ian Bicking http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-81 Ian Bicking Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:13:00 +0000 http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-81 Well, going back to the original metaphor, coordinated mass transit is still like parking your car and getting a freeway car, then getting another street car on the other end. When you have a coordinated payment system and coordinated scheduling and good interconnections you've only <I>approached</I> what that freeway/parking system offers, you haven't even achieved that much. The current situation is actually much worse than a freeway/parking system. It's not just point-to-point that cars offer -- though that's important -- but single-vehicle. If you are shopping (especially bulky stuff like grocery shopping), then changing vehicles is hard. If you have kids, changing vehicles is hard. Or if you are disabled. Or if the weather is bad. Or if it is crowded. And the scaling issues of transfers are numerous. If you have good geographic coverage, you may not have good scheduling coverage -- infrequent but ubiquitous travel. If you have good scheduling, you may have to walk further. Arteries may reflect out of date aspects of the city; for instance, Chicago has all the trains going downtown, which maybe made sense 50 years ago, but going from a non-downtown location to another non-downtown location is only well served by buses as a result. Getting the transit we have done right would help, of course, but I think the issues are bigger than just high-level coordination. Well, going back to the original metaphor, coordinated mass transit is still like parking your car and getting a freeway car, then getting another street car on the other end. When you have a coordinated payment system and coordinated scheduling and good interconnections you’ve only approached what that freeway/parking system offers, you haven’t even achieved that much. The current situation is actually much worse than a freeway/parking system.

It’s not just point-to-point that cars offer — though that’s important — but single-vehicle. If you are shopping (especially bulky stuff like grocery shopping), then changing vehicles is hard. If you have kids, changing vehicles is hard. Or if you are disabled. Or if the weather is bad. Or if it is crowded.

And the scaling issues of transfers are numerous. If you have good geographic coverage, you may not have good scheduling coverage — infrequent but ubiquitous travel. If you have good scheduling, you may have to walk further. Arteries may reflect out of date aspects of the city; for instance, Chicago has all the trains going downtown, which maybe made sense 50 years ago, but going from a non-downtown location to another non-downtown location is only well served by buses as a result.

Getting the transit we have done right would help, of course, but I think the issues are bigger than just high-level coordination.

]]> By: Marcel Marchon http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-80 Marcel Marchon Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:13:00 +0000 http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-80 Well, I think having point-to-point travel by public transportation isn't necessary - that would go a bit too far - what I'm looking for is just better connections and coordination between the various modes (bus, light rail, commuter rail, intercity rail) and operators. That would already help a lot ... Well, I think having point-to-point travel by public transportation isn’t necessary - that would go a bit too far - what I’m looking for is just better connections and coordination between the various modes (bus, light rail, commuter rail, intercity rail) and operators. That would already help a lot …

]]> By: Ian Bicking http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-79 Ian Bicking Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:58:00 +0000 http://trainblog.com/2006/07/imagine-freeway-without-on-or-offramps/#comment-79 What you describe sounds a lot like <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit" rel="nofollow">PRT</A>, an interconnected rail system that can do point-to-point travel much more like cars than traditional trains. What you describe sounds a lot like PRT, an interconnected rail system that can do point-to-point travel much more like cars than traditional trains.

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